Manaphy semiubber me parece una locura. Pero igual de locura meter a Excadrill semiubber (que es ubber hasta en Smogon). Claro que esto no tiene sentido si se prohibe finalmente chorro arena, no creo que haya alguien que vaya a poner arena manualmente.

Uy, cuidado, que Exadrill es ubber en Smogon...!!

Excadrill es frenable, por dios. Casi cualquier pokémon volador o con levitación que no sea débil a Avalancha o Tijera X lo frena. Gliscor, Skarmory, Bronzong, Zapdos, Landorus, Claydol.....Hippowdon, con sus enormes PS y defensa, resiste un terremoto y le mata si no lleva Globo o ya se le petó, o le echa con Rugido. Luego están también los pokémon con globo. Usando un poco el ingenio puede sacar counters de Excadrill gracias al uso del objeto. Objeto que tampoco les viene mal de por sí. Por ejemplo, Lucario. O Metagross.

Vamos, que yo veo más temible a Venusaur mismo en sol, suerte que aún no llegó.

Os dejo el link de la página para calcular counters que utilizo: http://www.honko.freehosting.com/coverage_calc.html
Metes el poke, evs en atks y moves y te dice los counters y todo eso, os será de utilidad xDDDDDDD
Manaphy max atk sp y no modest [surf,ice beam,HP Grass]:

Shedinja (RU Swords Dance) Surf 0 - 0% Ice Beam 0 - 0%
Chansey (OU Wish) Surf 11.93 - 14.06% Ice Beam 7.95 - 9.37%
Chansey (OU Counter) Surf 11.93 - 14.06% Ice Beam 7.95 - 9.37%
Empoleon (OU Specially Defensive) Surf 12.36 - 14.78% HP Grass 12.36 - 14.78%
Empoleon (UU Specially Defensive) Surf 12.36 - 14.78% HP Grass 12.36 - 14.78%
Blissey (OU Support) Surf 14 - 16.52% Ice Beam 9.38 - 11.06%
Blissey (OU Wish Support) Surf 14 - 16.52% Ice Beam 9.38 - 11.06%
Mantine (RU RestTalk) Ice Beam 14.97 - 17.36% HP Grass 11.07 - 13.17%
Tentacruel (OU Toxic Spikes) Surf 15.1 - 18.13% HP Grass 15.1 - 17.85%
Ferroseed (UU Spiker) Ice Beam 15.75 - 18.83% Surf 11.64 - 14.04%
Munchlax (RU RestTalk) Surf 15.73 - 18.87% HP Grass 7.64 - 9.21%
Munchlax (RU Curselax) Surf 15.73 - 18.87% HP Grass 7.64 - 9.21%
Empoleon (OU Choice Specs) Surf 17.25 - 20.48% HP Grass 16.98 - 20.21%
Regice (RU Support) Surf 17.3 - 20.6% HP Grass 8.51 - 10.16%
Snorlax (OU CurseLax) Surf 17.71 - 20.86% HP Grass 8.85 - 10.43%
Snorlax (UU CurseLax) Surf 17.71 - 20.86% HP Grass 8.85 - 10.43%
Snorlax (UU RestTalk) Surf 18.12 - 21.63% HP Grass 8.96 - 10.72%
Tentacruel (OU Offensive) Surf 18.39 - 22.07% HP Grass 18.39 - 21.73%
Ferrothorn (OU Standard) Ice Beam 18.75 - 22.15% Surf 13.92 - 16.47%
Registeel (UU Tank) Surf 19.23 - 23.07% Ice Beam 6.31 - 7.69%
Registeel (UU Mono-Attacker) Surf 19.23 - 23.07% Ice Beam 6.31 - 7.69%
Dusclops (OU Defensive) Surf 19.36 - 23.23% Ice Beam 13.02 - 15.49%
Dusclops (OU RestTalk) Surf 19.36 - 23.23% Ice Beam 13.02 - 15.49%
Umbreon (UU Wish Support) Surf 19.79 - 23.6% Ice Beam 13.19 - 15.73%
Empoleon (UU Agility) Surf 20.06 - 23.82% HP Grass 19.74 - 23.51%
Empoleon (OU Agility) Surf 20.44 - 24.28% HP Grass 20.12 - 23.96%
Regice (RU All Out Attacker) Surf 20.4 - 24.48% HP Grass 10.2 - 12.24%
Lapras (OU Curse) HP Grass 20.68 - 24.56% Surf 10.34 - 12.28%
Lapras (RU Curse) HP Grass 20.68 - 24.56% Surf 10.34 - 12.28%
Lapras (RU Perish Trapper) HP Grass 20.68 - 24.56% Surf 10.34 - 12.28%
Jynx (UU Calm Mind) HP Grass 20.87 - 24.61% Ice Beam 14.01 - 16.51%
Articuno (NU Defensive) Surf 21.14 - 25.06% Ice Beam 14.09 - 16.71%
Snorlax (UU Offensive) Surf 21.2 - 25.15% Ice Beam 14.13 - 16.83%
Abomasnow (OU SubSeed) Ice Beam 21.35 - 25.26% Surf 15.88 - 18.75%
Ferrothorn (OU Choice Band) Ice Beam 21.65 - 25.64% Surf 16.23 - 19.08%
Snorlax (OU Offensive) Surf 21.65 - 25.69% HP Grass 10.82 - 12.73%
Gyarados (OU RestTalk) Ice Beam 21.82 - 25.88% Surf 16.24 - 19.28%
Cresselia (UU Dual Screens) Surf 21.84 - 25.9% Ice Beam 14.63 - 17.34%
Deoxys-D (OU Spikes) Surf 22.03 - 25.98% Ice Beam 14.8 - 17.43%
Articuno (RU Specially Defensive) Surf 21.93 - 26.1% Ice Beam 14.62 - 17.23%
Frillish (NU Specially Defensive) HP Grass 21.65 - 26.11% Surf 10.82 - 13.05%
Cryogonal (RU Specially Defensive) Surf 22.09 - 26.16% HP Grass 11.04 - 13.08%
Cryogonal (UU Rapid Spin) Surf 22.09 - 26.16% HP Grass 11.04 - 13.08%
Cresselia (OU Dual Screens Support) Surf 22.52 - 26.57% Ice Beam 15.09 - 17.79%
Ferroseed (RU Support) Ice Beam 22.6 - 26.71% Surf 16.78 - 19.86%
Porygon2 (OU Defensive Duck) Surf 22.45 - 26.73% Ice Beam 14.97 - 17.91%
Ludicolo (OU SubSeed) Ice Beam 22.52 - 26.92% HP Grass 17.03 - 20.05%
Hypno (RU Support) Surf 22.72 - 27.27% Ice Beam 15.24 - 18.18%
Dusclops (UU Defensive) Surf 23.23 - 27.46% Ice Beam 15.49 - 18.3%
Dusclops (UU RestTalk) Surf 23.23 - 27.46% Ice Beam 15.49 - 18.3%
Gyarados (OU Bulky Dragon Dance) Ice Beam 23.24 - 27.56% Surf 17.56 - 20.81%
Regice (RU Rock Polish) Surf 23.02 - 27.63% HP Grass 11.51 - 13.81%
Kyurem (OU Glaciate) Ice Beam 23.45 - 27.65% Surf 17.53 - 20.74%
Cresselia (OU Support) Surf 23.19 - 27.7% Ice Beam 15.54 - 18.46%
Cresselia (OU Calm Mind) Surf 23.19 - 27.7% Ice Beam 15.54 - 18.46%
Cresselia (UU Defensive) Surf 23.19 - 27.7% Ice Beam 15.54 - 18.46%
Cresselia (UU Substitute + Calm Mind) Surf 23.19 - 27.7% Ice Beam 15.54 - 18.46%
Throh (RU Bulk Up) Surf 23.19 - 27.7% Ice Beam 15.54 - 18.46%
Milotic (UU RestTalk) HP Grass 23.35 - 27.91% Surf 11.67 - 13.95%
Ludicolo (RU SubSeed) Ice Beam 23.62 - 28.02% HP Grass 17.58 - 20.87%
Jirachi (OU Specially Defensive) Surf 23.76 - 28.21% Ice Beam 7.92 - 9.4%
Throh (UU Bulk Up) Surf 23.73 - 28.34% Ice Beam 15.89 - 18.89%
Kyurem (OU Choice) Ice Beam 24.04 - 28.38% Surf 17.9 - 21.22%
Kyurem (OU Life Orb) Ice Beam 24.04 - 28.38% Surf 17.9 - 21.22%
Throh (OU Bulk Up) Surf 23.78 - 28.4% Ice Beam 15.93 - 18.93%
Grumpig (RU Support) Surf 24.17 - 28.84% HP Grass 12.08 - 14.28%
Grumpig (RU Dual Screens) Surf 24.17 - 28.84% HP Grass 12.08 - 14.28%
Porygon2 (OU Trick Room) Surf 24.33 - 28.87% Ice Beam 16.31 - 19.25%
Porygon2 (UU Offensive) Surf 24.33 - 28.87% Ice Beam 16.31 - 19.25%
Porygon2 (UU Defensive Duck) Surf 24.33 - 28.87% Ice Beam 16.31 - 19.25%
Porygon2 (UU Trick Room) Surf 24.33 - 28.87% Ice Beam 16.31 - 19.25%
Jynx (NU Substitute + Nasty Plot) HP Grass 24.54 - 28.93% Ice Beam 16.48 - 19.41%
Milotic (OU RestTalk) HP Grass 24.36 - 28.93% Surf 12.18 - 14.46%
Slowking (UU Defensive) HP Grass 24.36 - 28.93% Surf 12.18 - 14.46%
Jynx (UU Nasty Plot) HP Grass 24.63 - 29.04% Ice Beam 16.54 - 19.48%
Jynx (NU Offensive Nasty Plot) HP Grass 24.72 - 29.15% Ice Beam 16.6 - 19.55%
Jynx (NU Choice Scarf) HP Grass 24.72 - 29.15% Ice Beam 16.6 - 19.55%
Slowking (RU Bulky Water) HP Grass 24.93 - 29.51% Surf 12.46 - 14.75%
Slowking (RU Trick Room Support) HP Grass 24.93 - 29.51% Surf 12.46 - 14.75%
Gyarados (OU Substitute + Dragon Dance) Ice Beam 24.92 - 29.56% Surf 18.84 - 22.31%
Deoxys-D (OU Toxic Staller) Surf 25 - 29.6% Ice Beam 16.77 - 19.73%
Gurdurr (RU Bulk Up) Surf 24.86 - 29.67% Ice Beam 16.57 - 19.78%
Gurdurr (UU Bulk Up) Surf 24.86 - 29.67% Ice Beam 16.57 - 19.78%
Clefable (UU Support) Surf 25.38 - 29.94% Ice Beam 17 - 20.05%
Audino (RU Wish Passer) Surf 25.12 - 30% Ice Beam 16.82 - 20%
Audino (RU Trick Room) Surf 25.12 - 30% Ice Beam 16.82 - 20%
Audino (RU Dual Screens) Surf 25.12 - 30% Ice Beam 16.82 - 20%
Gardevoir (RU Support) Surf 25 - 30% Ice Beam 16.76 - 20%
Gothitelle (NU Dual Screens) Surf 25.58 - 30.52% Ice Beam 17.15 - 20.34%
Gothitelle (NU Defensive Trick Room) Surf 25.58 - 30.52% Ice Beam 17.15 - 20.34%
Scrafty (OU Bulk Up) Surf 25.44 - 30.53% Ice Beam 17.06 - 20.35%
Gallade (OU Bulk Up) Surf 25.81 - 30.56% Ice Beam 17.21 - 20.47%
Gallade (RU Bulk Up) Surf 25.81 - 30.56% Ice Beam 17.21 - 20.47%
Togetic (RU Baton Pass) Ice Beam 25.47 - 30.57% Surf 19.1 - 22.92%
Dusknoir (RU Tank) Surf 25.85 - 30.61% Ice Beam 17.34 - 20.4%
Gyarados (OU Offensive Dragon Dance) Ice Beam 25.98 - 30.81% Surf 19.63 - 23.26%
Gyarados (OU Choice Scarf) Ice Beam 25.98 - 30.81% Surf 19.63 - 23.26%
Gyarados (OU Choice Band) Ice Beam 25.98 - 30.81% Surf 19.63 - 23.26%
Slowking (OU Tank) HP Grass 25.88 - 30.96% Surf 12.94 - 15.48%
Slowking (OU Defensive Nasty Plot) HP Grass 25.88 - 30.96% Surf 12.94 - 15.48%
Kingdra (OU ChestoRest Dragon Dance) Ice Beam 26.29 - 31.19% HP Grass 19.57 - 23.24%
Cryogonal (RU Dual Screens) Surf 26.45 - 31.39% HP Grass 13.08 - 15.69%
Escavalier (UU Specially Defensive) Surf 26.45 - 31.39% Ice Beam 8.72 - 10.46%
Kingdra (UU ChestoRest) Ice Beam 26.7 - 31.45% HP Grass 19.88 - 23.44%
Milotic (OU Physically Defensive) HP Grass 26.9 - 31.97% Surf 13.7 - 15.98%
Milotic (UU Physically Defensive) HP Grass 26.9 - 31.97% Surf 13.7 - 15.98%
Wobbuffet (OU Bulky) Surf 27.84 - 32.95% Ice Beam 18.56 - 21.96%
Articuno (NU SubRoost) Surf 28.19 - 33.15% Ice Beam 18.79 - 21.93%
Suicune (OU CroCune) HP Grass 27.72 - 33.16% Surf 14.1 - 16.83%
Suicune (UU RestTalk) HP Grass 27.72 - 33.16% Surf 14.1 - 16.83%
Suicune (UU CroCune) HP Grass 27.72 - 33.16% Surf 14.1 - 16.83%
Ludicolo (RU Rain Special Attacker) Ice Beam 28.19 - 33.44% HP Grass 20.98 - 24.91%
Ludicolo (RU Swords Dance) Ice Beam 28.19 - 33.44% HP Grass 20.98 - 24.91%
Kingdra (OU Choice Specs) Ice Beam 28.48 - 33.54% HP Grass 21.2 - 25%
Deoxys-D (UU Bulky Spiker) Surf 27.96 - 33.55% Ice Beam 18.75 - 22.36%
Suicune (OU Substitute + Calm Mind) HP Grass 28.21 - 33.66% Surf 14.1 - 16.83%
Suicune (UU Sub Calm Mind) HP Grass 28.21 - 33.66% Surf 14.1 - 16.83%
Bronzong (OU Tank) Surf 28.4 - 33.72% Ice Beam 9.46 - 11.24%
Kingdra (UU Rain Dance Sweeper) Ice Beam 28.66 - 33.75% HP Grass 21.33 - 25.15%
Ludicolo (OU Special Rain) Ice Beam 28.47 - 33.77% HP Grass 21.19 - 25.16%
Ludicolo (OU Swords Dance) Ice Beam 28.47 - 33.77% HP Grass 21.19 - 25.16%
Ludicolo (UU Rain Dance Sweeper) Ice Beam 28.47 - 33.77% HP Grass 21.19 - 25.16%
Ludicolo (UU Swords Dance) Ice Beam 28.47 - 33.77% HP Grass 21.19 - 25.16%
Deoxys-D (UU Fast Spiker) Surf 28.61 - 33.88% Ice Beam 19.07 - 22.69%
Deoxys-D (UU Toxic Staller) Surf 28.61 - 33.88% Ice Beam 19.07 - 22.69%
Cofagrigus (RU Defensive) Surf 29.06 - 34.06% Ice Beam 19.37 - 22.81%
Vaporeon (OU Wish Support) HP Grass 28.94 - 34.12% Ice Beam 9.71 - 11.44%
Vaporeon (OU Hydration Wall) HP Grass 28.94 - 34.12% Surf 14.47 - 17.06%
Lanturn (UU Special Tank) HP Grass 28.71 - 34.15% Surf 14.6 - 17.07%
Lanturn (UU RestTalk) HP Grass 28.71 - 34.15% Surf 14.6 - 17.07%
Vaporeon (OU Baton Pass) HP Grass 29 - 34.19% Ice Beam 9.74 - 11.47%
Wigglytuff (NU Wish) Surf 29.13 - 34.29% Ice Beam 19.42 - 22.93%
Alomomola (UU Wish Support) HP Grass 29.14 - 34.33% Surf 14.77 - 17.36%
Eelektross (OU Physical Coil) Surf 29.14 - 34.49% Ice Beam 19.51 - 22.99%
Eelektross (RU Coil) Surf 29.14 - 34.49% Ice Beam 19.51 - 22.99%
Eelektross (UU Coil) Surf 29.14 - 34.49% Ice Beam 19.51 - 22.99%
Lickilicky (UU Support) Surf 29.24 - 34.66% Ice Beam 19.57 - 23.11%
Uxie (OU Support) Surf 29.09 - 34.74% Ice Beam 19.49 - 23.16%
Uxie (OU Dual Screens) Surf 29.09 - 34.74% Ice Beam 19.49 - 23.16%
Uxie (UU Dual Screens) Surf 29.09 - 34.74% Ice Beam 19.49 - 23.16%
Uxie (UU Support) Surf 29.09 - 34.74% Ice Beam 19.49 - 23.16%
Uxie (UU Field Supporter) Surf 29.09 - 34.74% Ice Beam 19.49 - 23.16%
Hariyama (RU RestTalk) Surf 29.39 - 34.95% HP Grass 14.58 - 17.36%
Hariyama (UU RestTalk) Surf 29.39 - 34.95% HP Grass 14.58 - 17.36%
Mew (UU Stallbreaker) Surf 29.7 - 35.14% Ice Beam 19.8 - 23.51%
Miltank (RU Curse) Surf 29.94 - 35.27% Ice Beam 20.05 - 23.6%
Kingdra (OU Special Rain Dance) Ice Beam 30 - 35.33% HP Grass 22.33 - 26.33%
Slowking (OU Trick Room) HP Grass 29.94 - 35.53% Surf 15.22 - 18.02%
Slowking (UU Trick Room) HP Grass 29.94 - 35.53% Surf 14.97 - 17.76%
Slowking (RU Choice Specs) HP Grass 30.02 - 35.62% Surf 15.01 - 17.81%
Slowking (RU Nasty Room) HP Grass 30.02 - 35.62% Surf 15.01 - 17.81%
Ninetales (OU Specially Defensive [Drought]) Surf 29.71 - 36% Ice Beam 10 - 11.71%
Jellicent (OU Utility Counter) HP Grass 30.76 - 36.22% Surf 15.38 - 18.11%
Kingdra (UU Dragon Dance) Ice Beam 30.82 - 36.3% HP Grass 22.94 - 27.05%
Kingdra (UU Choice Specs) Ice Beam 30.82 - 36.3% HP Grass 22.94 - 27.05%
Mandibuzz (OU Specially Defensive) Ice Beam 30.66 - 36.32% Surf 22.87 - 27.12%
Togekiss (OU Paralysis Abuse) Ice Beam 30.48 - 36.36% Surf 22.72 - 27.27%
Lapras (OU Dragon Dance) HP Grass 30.92 - 36.4% Surf 15.46 - 18.2%
Mandibuzz (RU Specially Defensive) Ice Beam 30.73 - 36.4% Surf 22.93 - 27.18%
Mandibuzz (UU Specially Defensive) Ice Beam 30.73 - 36.4% Surf 22.93 - 27.18%
Misdreavus (NU Physically Defensive) Surf 30.86 - 36.41% Ice Beam 20.67 - 24.38%
Misdreavus (NU Calm Mind) Surf 30.86 - 36.41% Ice Beam 20.67 - 24.38%
Misdreavus (RU Calm Mind) Surf 30.86 - 36.41% Ice Beam 20.67 - 24.38%
Misdreavus (RU Support) Surf 30.86 - 36.41% Ice Beam 20.67 - 24.38%
Misdreavus (RU Perish Trapper) Surf 30.86 - 36.41% Ice Beam 20.67 - 24.38%
Kingdra (OU Mixed Rain Dance) Ice Beam 30.92 - 36.42% HP Grass 23.02 - 27.14%
Kingdra (OU Mixed Dragon Dance) Ice Beam 30.92 - 36.42% HP Grass 23.02 - 27.14%
Abomasnow (OU Choice Scarf) Ice Beam 30.84 - 36.44% Surf 23.05 - 27.1%
Bronzong (OU Dual Screens) Surf 31.06 - 36.68% Ice Beam 10.35 - 12.13%
Bronzong (OU Trick Room Support) Surf 31.06 - 36.68% Ice Beam 10.35 - 12.13%
Musharna (RU Calm Mind) Surf 30.96 - 36.69% Ice Beam 20.64 - 24.54%
Musharna (RU Special Attacker) Surf 30.96 - 36.69% Ice Beam 20.64 - 24.54%
Musharna (RU Baton Pass) Surf 30.96 - 36.69% Ice Beam 20.64 - 24.54%
Musharna (RU Dual Screens) Surf 30.96 - 36.69% Ice Beam 20.64 - 24.54%
Qwilfish (RU Utility) Surf 31.13 - 36.82% HP Grass 30.53 - 36.22%
Qwilfish (UU Utility) Surf 31.43 - 36.82% HP Grass 30.83 - 36.52%
Lanturn (UU Rain Dance) HP Grass 30.92 - 36.9% Surf 15.71 - 18.7%
Lanturn (UU SubCharge) HP Grass 31.18 - 37.12% Surf 15.59 - 18.56%
Tyranitar (OU Specially Defensive [Sand Stream]) Surf 31.18 - 37.12% HP Grass 15.34 - 18.31%
Togekiss (UU Paralysis Abuse) Ice Beam 31.55 - 37.43% Surf 23.52 - 28.07%
Magnezone (OU Dual Screen) Surf 31.68 - 37.5% Ice Beam 10.46 - 12.5%
Cradily (UU Mono-Attacker) Ice Beam 31.91 - 37.76% Surf 23.93 - 28.19%
Spiritomb (UU Defensive) Surf 31.9 - 37.82% Ice Beam 21.38 - 25.32%
Mew (UU Baton Pass) Surf 31.93 - 37.87% Ice Beam 21.28 - 25.24%
Milotic (UU Offensive) HP Grass 31.92 - 37.95% Surf 16.26 - 18.97%
Metang (RU Dual Screens [Eviolite]) Surf 31.79 - 37.96% Ice Beam 10.49 - 12.65%
Jellicent (OU Choice Specs) HP Grass 32.29 - 38.02% Ice Beam 10.67 - 12.76%
Dragonair (RU Defensive Dragon Dance) Ice Beam 31.9 - 38.03% Surf 11.96 - 14.11%
Jirachi (OU SubCM) Surf 32.17 - 38.11% Ice Beam 10.64 - 12.62%
Jirachi (OU Wish + Calm Mind) Surf 32.17 - 38.11% Ice Beam 10.64 - 12.62%
Mew (OU Support) Surf 32.17 - 38.11% Ice Beam 21.53 - 25.49%
Mew (OU Baton Pass) Surf 32.17 - 38.11% Ice Beam 21.53 - 25.49%
Mew (UU Bulky Calm Mind) Surf 32.17 - 38.11% Ice Beam 21.53 - 25.49%
Roselia (RU Utility) Ice Beam 32.23 - 38.15% Surf 11.84 - 14.14%
Dragonite (OU Parashuffler [Multiscale]) Ice Beam 32.12 - 38.34% Surf 5.95 - 6.99%
Hariyama (UU Bulk Up) Surf 32.32 - 38.37% HP Grass 16.04 - 19.06%
Hariyama (UU SubPunch) Surf 32.32 - 38.37% HP Grass 16.04 - 19.06%
Hariyama (RU SubPunch) Surf 32.63 - 38.42% HP Grass 16.2 - 19.21%
Hariyama (RU Bulk Up) Surf 32.63 - 38.42% Ice Beam 21.75 - 25.69%
Tyranitar (OU Mixed Attacker [Sand Stream]) Surf 32.67 - 38.61% HP Grass 16.33 - 19.3%
Drapion (OU Toxic Spikes) Surf 32.55 - 38.66% Ice Beam 21.8 - 25.87%
Drapion (RU Specially Defensive) Surf 32.55 - 38.66% Ice Beam 21.8 - 25.87%
Walrein (UU Stallrein) HP Grass 32.45 - 38.66% Surf 16.46 - 19.33%
Lapras (RU LapDance) HP Grass 33 - 38.91% Ice Beam 5.41 - 6.4%
Uxie (UU Substitute + Calm Mind) Surf 32.69 - 39.04% Ice Beam 21.9 - 26.03%
Suicune (OU Offensive Calm Mind) HP Grass 32.84 - 39.29% Surf 16.71 - 19.94%
Wigglytuff (NU Dual Screens) Surf 33.41 - 39.33% Ice Beam 22.27 - 26.3%
Toxicroak (OU Bulk Up) Ice Beam 33.42 - 39.4% HP Grass 12.22 - 14.4%
Toxicroak (OU SubPunch) Ice Beam 33.42 - 39.4% HP Grass 12.22 - 14.4%
Vaporeon (OU Hydration Tank) HP Grass 33.41 - 39.4% Surf 16.7 - 19.95%
Politoed (OU Defensive) HP Grass 33.33 - 39.58% Surf 16.66 - 19.79%
Suicune (UU Offensive Calm Mind) HP Grass 33.33 - 39.76% Surf 16.66 - 19.88%
Raikou (UU RestTalk) Surf 33.59 - 39.84% Ice Beam 22.39 - 26.56%
Cradily (OU Mono-Attacker) Ice Beam 33.51 - 39.89% Surf 25 - 29.78%
Bronzong (OU Offensive Trick Room) Surf 33.72 - 39.94% Ice Beam 11.24 - 13.31%
Gallade (RU Offensive Trick Room) Surf 33.82 - 40% Ice Beam 22.64 - 26.76%
Gallade (UU Bulk Up) Surf 33.82 - 40% Ice Beam 22.64 - 26.76%
Gardevoir (RU Dual Screens) Surf 33.82 - 40% Ice Beam 22.64 - 26.76%
Dusknoir (OU Tank) Surf 34.01 - 40.13% Ice Beam 22.78 - 26.87%
Dusknoir (OU SubPunch) Surf 34.01 - 40.13% Ice Beam 22.78 - 26.87%
Dusknoir (OU Gravity) Surf 34.01 - 40.13% Ice Beam 22.78 - 26.87%
Dusknoir (RU SubPunch) Surf 34.01 - 40.13% Ice Beam 22.78 - 26.87%
Dusknoir (UU Tank) Surf 34.01 - 40.13% Ice Beam 22.78 - 26.87%
Blastoise (UU Utility) HP Grass 34.25 - 40.33% Surf 17.12 - 20.16%
Mesprit (UU Trick Room) Surf 34.06 - 40.38% Ice Beam 22.8 - 26.92%
Mesprit (UU Support) Surf 34.06 - 40.38% Ice Beam 22.8 - 26.92%
Mesprit (UU Weather Support) Surf 34.06 - 40.38% Ice Beam 22.8 - 26.92%
Bouffalant (OU Choice Band) Surf 34.26 - 40.6% Ice Beam 22.84 - 27.15%
Bouffalant (UU Swords Dance) Surf 34.26 - 40.6% Ice Beam 22.84 - 27.15%
Bouffalant (UU Choice Band) Surf 34.26 - 40.6% Ice Beam 22.84 - 27.15%
Amoonguss (OU Double Status) Ice Beam 34.25 - 40.74% Surf 12.73 - 15.27%
Gothitelle (NU Calm Mind) Surf 34.3 - 40.98% Ice Beam 22.96 - 27.32%
Alomomola (RU Support) HP Grass 35 - 41.25% Surf 17.5 - 20.62%
Cofagrigus (OU Bulky Ghost) Surf 34.68 - 41.25% Ice Beam 23.12 - 27.5%
Cofagrigus (UU Defensive) Surf 34.68 - 41.25% Ice Beam 23.12 - 27.5%
Reuniclus (OU Calm Mind) Surf 34.9 - 41.27% Ice Beam 23.34 - 27.59%
Reuniclus (OU Trick) Surf 34.9 - 41.27% Ice Beam 23.34 - 27.59%
Weezing (RU Specially Defensive) Surf 35.32 - 41.61% Ice Beam 23.65 - 27.84%
Wobbuffet (OU Speedy) Surf 35.31 - 41.65% Ice Beam 23.6 - 27.83%
Pelipper (NU Rain Dance) Ice Beam 35.8 - 41.97% Surf 26.85 - 31.48%
Scizor (OU Bulky Swords Dance) Surf 35.75 - 42.15% Ice Beam 11.91 - 13.95%
Hariyama (RU Guts) Surf 35.66 - 42.19% Ice Beam 23.77 - 28.2%
Skarmory (OU Specially Defensive) Surf 35.32 - 42.21% Ice Beam 23.35 - 28.14%
Machoke (UU RestTalk) Surf 35.71 - 42.3% Ice Beam 23.9 - 28.29%
Machoke (UU Substitute) Surf 35.71 - 42.3% Ice Beam 23.9 - 28.29%
Forretress (OU Specially Defensive) Surf 35.87 - 42.65% Ice Beam 11.86 - 14.12%
Jirachi (OU Substitute + Paralysis) Surf 36.01 - 42.65% Ice Beam 11.91 - 14.12%
Reuniclus (OU Offensive Trick Room) Surf 36.18 - 42.78% Ice Beam 24.2 - 28.6%
Escavalier (OU Choice Band) Surf 36.15 - 42.85% Ice Beam 11.95 - 14.28%
Escavalier (UU Choice Band) Surf 36.15 - 42.85% Ice Beam 11.95 - 14.28%
Escavalier (UU Swords Dance) Surf 36.15 - 42.85% Ice Beam 11.95 - 14.28%
Poliwrath (RU RestTalk) HP Grass 36.45 - 43.22% Ice Beam 12.23 - 14.58%
Poliwrath (UU RestTalk) HP Grass 36.45 - 43.22% Ice Beam 12.23 - 14.58%
Wynaut (NU Why Not in NU?) Surf 36.44 - 43.37% Ice Beam 24.39 - 28.91%
Cradily (UU Tank) Ice Beam 36.7 - 43.61% HP Grass 13.56 - 15.95%
Raikou (UU Substitute + Calm Mind) Surf 36.82 - 43.62% Ice Beam 24.64 - 29.17%
Heracross (UU Bulk Up) Surf 37.08 - 43.95% Ice Beam 24.72 - 29.39%
Golbat (RU Defensive) Ice Beam 37.28 - 44.06% Surf 27.96 - 33.05%
Shelgon (RU Defensive Dragon Dance) Ice Beam 37.12 - 44.31% Surf 13.77 - 16.46%
Shelgon (RU Wish) Ice Beam 37.12 - 44.31% Surf 13.77 - 16.46%
Kangaskhan (UU SubPunch) Surf 37.95 - 44.76% Ice Beam 25.3 - 29.92%
Wynaut (UU Why Not in UU?) Surf 37.91 - 44.77% Ice Beam 25.37 - 29.85%
Jirachi (OU Superachi! (Offensive Calm Mind)) Surf 38.01 - 45.02% Ice Beam 12.57 - 14.91%
Mew (OU Nasty Plot) Surf 38.01 - 45.02% Ice Beam 25.43 - 30.11%
Azumarill (UU Choice Band) HP Grass 38.11 - 45.04% Surf 19.3 - 22.77%
Azumarill (UU SubPunch) HP Grass 38.11 - 45.04% Surf 19.3 - 22.77%
Latias (OU Calm Mind) Ice Beam 37.91 - 45.05% Surf 14.01 - 16.75%
Latias (OU Support) Ice Beam 37.91 - 45.05% Surf 14.01 - 16.75%
Latias (OU Physically Defensive Calm Mind) Ice Beam 37.91 - 45.05% Surf 14.01 - 16.75%
Machamp (OU Attacking Lead) Surf 38.05 - 45.14% Ice Beam 25.45 - 30.18%
Jirachi (OU Choice Scarf) Surf 38.12 - 45.16% Ice Beam 12.6 - 14.95%
Mew (UU Nasty Plot) Surf 38.12 - 45.16% Ice Beam 25.51 - 30.2%
Mew (UU Swords Dance) Surf 38.12 - 45.16% Ice Beam 25.51 - 30.2%
Beheeyem (RU Trick Room) Surf 38.13 - 45.19% Ice Beam 25.42 - 30.22%
Qwilfish (RU Rain Sweeper) Surf 38.6 - 45.22% HP Grass 37.86 - 44.85%
Qwilfish (UU Rain Sweeper) Surf 38.6 - 45.22% HP Grass 37.86 - 44.85%
Heracross (OU Bulk Up) Surf 38.24 - 45.32% Ice Beam 25.49 - 30.31%
Vigoroth (NU Bulk Up) Surf 38.18 - 45.32% Ice Beam 25.54 - 30.21%
Vigoroth (NU Stallbreaker) Surf 38.18 - 45.32% Ice Beam 25.54 - 30.21%
Mismagius (UU Support) Surf 38.27 - 45.37% Ice Beam 25.61 - 30.24%
Magneton (RU RestTalk) Surf 38.48 - 45.39% Ice Beam 12.82 - 15.13%
Magneton (UU Charge Beam [Eviolite]) Surf 38.48 - 45.39% Ice Beam 12.82 - 15.13%
Vespiquen (RU Specially Defensive) Ice Beam 38.48 - 45.48% Surf 28.86 - 34.11%
Kangaskhan (RU SubPunch) Surf 38.61 - 45.54% Ice Beam 25.74 - 30.44%
Cofagrigus (OU Calm Mind) Surf 38.75 - 45.93% Ice Beam 25.93 - 30.62%
Cofagrigus (RU Calm Mind) Surf 38.75 - 45.93% Ice Beam 25.93 - 30.62%
Cofagrigus (RU Trick Room) Surf 38.75 - 45.93% Ice Beam 25.93 - 30.62%
Cofagrigus (UU Calm Mind) Surf 38.75 - 45.93% Ice Beam 25.93 - 30.62%
Duosion (NU Calm Mind) Surf 38.92 - 46.1% Ice Beam 26.04 - 30.83%
Duosion (RU Calm Mind) Surf 38.92 - 46.1% Ice Beam 26.04 - 30.83%
Metagross (OU Stealth Rock) Surf 39.01 - 46.15% Ice Beam 12.91 - 15.38%
Metagross (OU Choice Band) Surf 39.01 - 46.15% Ice Beam 12.91 - 15.38%
Azumarill (OU Choice Band) HP Grass 39.08 - 46.19% Surf 19.79 - 23.35%
Slowbro (OU Physical Tank) HP Grass 39.08 - 46.19% Surf 19.79 - 23.35%
Slowbro (OU Choice Specs) HP Grass 39.08 - 46.19% Surf 19.79 - 23.35%
Slowbro (OU Calm Mind) HP Grass 39.08 - 46.19% Surf 19.79 - 23.35%
Slowbro (UU Tank) HP Grass 39.08 - 46.19% Surf 19.79 - 23.35%
Slowbro (UU Calm Mind) HP Grass 39.08 - 46.19% Surf 19.79 - 23.35%
Slowbro (UU Trick Room) HP Grass 39.08 - 46.19% Surf 19.79 - 23.35%
Cofagrigus (UU Offensive Trick Room) Surf 39.37 - 46.25% Ice Beam 26.25 - 30.93%
Gallade (UU Swords Dance) Surf 39.11 - 46.25% Ice Beam 26.19 - 30.95%
Hitmontop (OU Rapid Spin) Surf 38.81 - 46.38% Ice Beam 25.98 - 30.92%
Hitmontop (UU Rapid Spin) Surf 38.81 - 46.38% Ice Beam 25.98 - 30.92%
Duosion (NU Offensive Trick Room [Eviolite]) Surf 39.31 - 46.43% Ice Beam 26.31 - 30.95%
Duosion (RU Offensive Trick Room [Eviolite]) Surf 39.31 - 46.43% Ice Beam 26.31 - 30.95%
Mr. Mime (RU Baton Pass) Surf 39.08 - 46.47% Ice Beam 26.05 - 30.98%
Hitmontop (OU TechniTop) Surf 39.47 - 46.71% Ice Beam 26.31 - 31.25%
Hitmontop (UU TechniTop (Technician)) Surf 39.47 - 46.71% Ice Beam 26.31 - 31.25%
Hitmontop (UU Bulk Up) Surf 39.47 - 46.71% Ice Beam 26.31 - 31.25%
Rotom-C (OU Support) Ice Beam 39.47 - 46.71% Surf 14.8 - 17.43%
Rotom-C (UU Defensive) Ice Beam 39.47 - 46.71% Surf 14.8 - 17.43%
Machamp (UU Substitute + 3 Attacks) Surf 39.57 - 46.79% Ice Beam 26.47 - 31.28%
Machamp (UU Bulk Up) Surf 39.57 - 46.79% Ice Beam 26.47 - 31.28%
Machamp (UU Choice Band) Surf 39.57 - 46.79% Ice Beam 26.47 - 31.28%
Poliwrath (RU SubPunch) HP Grass 39.54 - 46.89% Ice Beam 13.27 - 15.81%
Poliwrath (UU SubPunch) HP Grass 39.54 - 46.89% Ice Beam 13.27 - 15.81%
Toxicroak (OU Swords Dance) Ice Beam 39.93 - 47.07% HP Grass 14.61 - 17.2%
Toxicroak (OU Nasty Plot) Ice Beam 39.93 - 47.07% HP Grass 14.61 - 17.2%
Politoed (OU Choice Specs) HP Grass 39.87 - 47.35% Surf 19.93 - 23.67%
Politoed (OU Choice Scarf) HP Grass 39.87 - 47.35% Surf 19.93 - 23.67%
Spiritomb (OU Calm Mind) Surf 39.8 - 47.36% Ice Beam 26.64 - 31.57%
Spiritomb (UU Choice Band) Surf 39.8 - 47.36% Ice Beam 26.64 - 31.57%
Spiritomb (UU Calm Mind) Surf 39.8 - 47.36% Ice Beam 26.64 - 31.57%
Conkeldurr (OU Bulk Up) Surf 40.15 - 47.5% Ice Beam 26.77 - 31.75%
Lopunny (RU Switcheroo) Surf 40.41 - 47.6% Ice Beam 26.94 - 31.73%
Ninetales (OU Sunny Day [Drought]) Surf 40.12 - 47.64% Ice Beam 13.16 - 15.67%
Raikou (UU Offensive Calm Mind) Surf 40.18 - 47.66% Ice Beam 26.79 - 31.77%
Meganium (NU Dual Screens) Ice Beam 40.1 - 47.8% Surf 14.83 - 17.85%
Espeon (OU Dual Screens) Surf 40.41 - 47.9% Ice Beam 26.94 - 32.03%
Espeon (OU Baton Pass) Surf 40.41 - 47.9% Ice Beam 26.94 - 32.03%
Bouffalant (RU Choice Band) Surf 40.78 - 48.33% Ice Beam 27.19 - 32.32%
Bouffalant (RU Substitute + 3 Attacks) Surf 40.78 - 48.33% Ice Beam 27.19 - 32.32%
Bouffalant (RU Swords Dance) Surf 40.78 - 48.33% Ice Beam 27.19 - 32.32%
Latias (OU Life Orb Tank) Ice Beam 40.7 - 48.37% Surf 15.04 - 17.99%
Scyther (RU Bulky Swords Dance) Ice Beam 40.81 - 48.39% Surf 30.61 - 36.15%
Togekiss (OU Defensive Nasty Plot) Ice Beam 41.17 - 48.66% Surf 30.74 - 36.36%
Togekiss (UU Defensive Nasty Plot) Ice Beam 41.17 - 48.66% Surf 30.74 - 36.36%
Magneton (RU Steel Killer) Surf 41.34 - 48.76% Ice Beam 13.78 - 16.25%
Roserade (OU Spikes) Ice Beam 41.35 - 48.76% Surf 15.43 - 18.2%
Roserade (UU Spikes) Ice Beam 41.35 - 48.76% Surf 15.43 - 18.2%
Drapion (RU Bulky Swords Dance) Surf 41.27 - 48.83% Ice Beam 27.61 - 32.55%
Mismagius (UU SubCM) Surf 41.19 - 48.83% Ice Beam 27.57 - 32.55%
Gallade (OU Swords Dance) Surf 41.36 - 48.92% Ice Beam 27.69 - 32.73%
Gallade (RU Swords Dance) Surf 41.36 - 48.92% Ice Beam 27.69 - 32.73%
Gallade (RU Choice) Surf 41.36 - 48.92% Ice Beam 27.69 - 32.73%
Gallade (UU Choice) Surf 41.36 - 48.92% Ice Beam 27.69 - 32.73%
Cradily (OU Swords Dance) Ice Beam 41.48 - 48.93% Surf 31.11 - 36.7%
Vespiquen (NU SubRoost) Ice Beam 41.39 - 48.97% Surf 30.9 - 36.73%
Gardevoir (RU Choice) Surf 41.51 - 49.09% Ice Beam 27.79 - 32.85%
Gardevoir (RU Substitute + 3 Attacks) Surf 41.51 - 49.09% Ice Beam 27.79 - 32.85%
Slaking (NU Choice Band) Surf 41.62 - 49.09% Ice Beam 27.82 - 32.8%
Shuckle (NU Utility) Surf 41.8 - 49.18% Ice Beam 13.93 - 16.39%
Eelektross (OU Acid Spray) Surf 41.71 - 49.19% Ice Beam 27.8 - 32.88%
Eelektross (OU Mixed Coil) Surf 41.71 - 49.19% Ice Beam 27.8 - 32.88%
Eelektross (RU Special Attacker) Surf 41.71 - 49.19% Ice Beam 27.8 - 32.88%
Eelektross (UU Special Attacker) Surf 41.71 - 49.19% Ice Beam 27.8 - 32.88%
Garbodor (RU Tank) Surf 42.03 - 49.45% Ice Beam 28.02 - 32.96%
Scyther (UU Bulky Swords Dance) Ice Beam 41.79 - 49.55% Surf 31.34 - 37.01%
Machamp (OU Substitute + 3 Attacks) Surf 41.92 - 49.57% Ice Beam 28.04 - 33.14%
Dragonite (OU Substitute + Dragon Dance [Multiscale]) Ice Beam 41.45 - 49.74% Surf 7.77 - 9.32%
Phione (NU Rain Dance) HP Grass 42.3 - 50% Surf 21.42 - 25.27%
Scrafty (OU Dragon Dance) Surf 42.27 - 50% Ice Beam 28.3 - 33.45%

El resto 2hko xD
Muchos pokes aguantan sus atks sin el +3 y mientras boostea es ''facil'' de revenge killear (mas por la velocidad que por resistente xD), pero con +3 los unicos pokes que le aguantan y le matan son segun lo que creo yo:
-Shedinja lol
-Mantine le envenena y con rest le puede ganar (sin rocas mejor) y si manaphy no lleva rest
-Chansey/blissey lo mismo si no lleva rest + max hp
-Regice lo mismo o darle thunderbolt.
-Deoxis D tiene problemas con rocas pero puede pillarle antes de que se bostee.
- Empoleon def sp
-Cresselia
-Registeel y dusclops le intoxican
-Cryogonal podria intoxicarle y aguantarle sin rocas
-Ferrothorn
-Kyurem
-Gyara2 sin rocas

Y mas que me dejo seguro.
Perdon por el tochopost xD

De esos que has puesto como "counters", varios pierden 25% por rocas y/o comen púas. Y su mayor counter, Ferrothorn, lo quitas de en medio con Magnezone

Algunos deberiais saber que ser ubber no quiere decir no tener counters, si no que abusa al centralizar demasiado.

Excadrill tiene counters, como también los tiene Kyogre o Mewtwo. Ojo, no estoy comparando Excadrill con Kyogre, simplemente estoy diciendo que ser ubber no implica no tener counters (dentro de ubbers hay unos que son más buenos que otros, claro está).

Eso es, Excadrill tiene un porrón de counters pero el problema es que hace pivotar el juego a su alrededor como también lo hizo Deoxys-S. Manaphy juega el mismo rol que Thundurus, aunque me parece más peligroso este último por su velocidad y menos counters. El único set que lo hace muy bueno es Ráfaga + los 3 ataques que ha dicho Avazard, el resto o bien carecen de cobertura o son superados por ejemplo el CM rest por Suicune y similares.

Excadrill en arena tiene pocos counters realmente. Tiene "counters" dependiendo de su 4 movimiento.

Pocos, pocos...gente que lo puede matar/pirulear con prácticamente 100% de garantías (hablo de la versión más standard con Air Balloon y Jolly, aunque en su mayoría se extienden a todos): Gligar, Gliscor, Tangela, Tangrowth, Dusclops, Duskull, Gyarados (defensivo e intimidador, obviamente), Rotom-W, Skarmory,  Hippowdon, Hippopotas, Weezing, Mew, Quagsire, Suicune, Torterra, Eelektross (Lol, pero puede salir a cualquier cosa en el 1r turno y devolverle Lanzallamas), Cofagrigus, Reuniclus, Landorus, y quizás, solo quizás Virizion.

Insisto en que el problema no es carencia de counters posibles, es la forma de monopolizar al juego, es un bicho a 600 de velocidad de entrada y con opción a boostear y un cierto aguante para hacerlo (más de lo que parece si miramos solo sus defensas).

Y con una facilidad de meter Danza Espada.

Alegre solo sirve para empatar con otros topos.

Firme también serviría todo lo que he dicho para o frenarlo en seco (ya sea vía quemadura, niebla, somnifero, remolino...) o darle KO (ya sea Terremoto, Onda Certera, Cascada, Hidrobomba...).

Y en un metagame pivotando entorno al topo, lo necesario es ser el topo más rápido, no el más fuerte, lógicamente quien pega primero pega 2 veces.

Danza Espada en el cambio, fail mío.

Pero si le sobra velocidad para pasar a la gran mayoría de pañueleros incluso siendo firme! Para empatar con otros Excadrill y jugarsela a 50%, yo prefiero que sea más fuerte. E incluso ponerle PE en PS.

Tú preferirás misa, la realidad es que se hacían Jolly para ser el topo más rápido, ya que había un topo en cada equipo de arena.

El otro día estuve jugando en el PO, en Smogon, y vi bastante variedad y echaría como 20/30 combates. No entiendo vuestras quejas. Obviamente la gente en OU no se va a poner cosas como Delibird, Metapod, Ledian y Unown.

El metagame ahora está bastante bien, hay muchas cosas de tiers inferiores que las puedes usar en superiores con más o menos éxito(también tienes lo de que los rivales no se preparan contra eso porque apenas se ve) En la liga pasada usé un Chandelure en la liga y había gente que le daba problemas por eso.

Y las cosas que centralizan, las banean para que el metagame no sea coñazo como el topo haciendo situaciones de riesgo con su buen tipo defensivo(y leí una vez que tenía mal tipo, me descojono, que he usado a Steelix, que tiene el mismo tipo) que le da una SD gratis ante muchas cosas y sus pocos counters, y Deoxys-S que centralizaba todo en Hyper Ofensiva con pantallas, mofas y piedras.

Ya dije anteriormente que el metagame no me parece que esté mal, simplemente es aburrido en el sentido de o me enfrento a agua, o me enfrento a arena o me enfrento a sol, de manera que cuando veo a alguien que no me saca clima corro a su casa a darle un abrazo.

Ampharos da más problemas que Chandelure.